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Wednesday, September 20, 2006

When Go Meets Anarchism

The following is a kgs conversation between some SA go players. I'm overdone.

thekro [1k?]: pity - since they' should be reminded (like us)
chiron74 [13k?]: oh ok, thanks ;-)
thekro [1k?]: they can see our comments now
thekro [1k?]: once the game is over
thekro [1k?]: and if they review the game they'll see your old comments
chiron74 [13k?]: better that way I think
chiron74 [13k?]: LOL! ....
thekro [1k?]: they just don't show up for them while they're playing
thekro [1k?]: see what i mean ;)
overdone [4k]: important stuff this, fate of the free world stuff
thekro [1k?]: well done dale
DaelM [7k]: it's only you guys who need to pay full attention to this trifling game
thekro [1k?]: damn - the kgs upgrade means you lose your buddy list
chiron74 [13k?]: I didn't
DaelM [7k]: yep
overdone [4k]: Aww, no friends steve, I'll be your friend
DaelM [7k]: what do you think of the new client?
thekro [1k?]: lol
thekro [1k?]: just added you
DaelM [7k]: now you
DaelM [7k]: 're stuc
chiron74 [13k?]: Quite nice - like the fact that it automatically updates
thekro [1k?]: yeah
overdone [4k]: with steve
DaelM [7k]: lol
DaelM [7k]: i like it
DaelM [7k]: but the new game dialogue is less than inutuitive
DaelM [7k]: and also 'intuitive'
chiron74 [13k?]: Graphically it is streets ahead of the others, these stones are beautiful
thekro [1k?]: we're gonna have to warn everyone to get the thing working before the next internet tournament, or we're gonna have some chaos then
overdone [4k]: but there is order in chaos
chiron74 [13k?]: fractal boy :)
DaelM [7k]: i tried igs the other night, when kgs was down
thekro [1k?]: not the sort of order that gets a tournament finished on time ;)
DaelM [7k]: the interface was terrible
thekro [1k?]: igs is horrible in terms of interface
thekro [1k?]: perhaps the windws equiv is better
overdone [4k]: time is relative
DaelM [7k]: steve, nope
DaelM [7k]: i used both
thekro [1k?]: ok
DaelM [7k]: they're both crap
thekro [1k?]: i wonder if the japs also have such a horrible interface?
thekro [1k?]: cos there are a lot of them on igs
chiron74 [13k?]: panda egg is the worst
thekro [1k?]: not like the handful of orientals on kgs
thekro [1k?]: yeah - i use an old version of glGo
DaelM [7k]: weird
DaelM [7k]: it's based on an old bbs style interface apparently
thekro [1k?]: the big attraction of igs for westerners is the high quality of opponents on igs
thekro [1k?]: but i think if cyberoro advertises, they'll lose that race
chiron74 [13k?]: and it is much easier to get a game due to the number of players
overdone [4k]: high quality? I can'tr even hadle low quality
DaelM [7k]: i'd love to get a game, but i couldn't figure out how
overdone [4k]: handle
chiron74 [13k?]: I don't like the cyberoro client
thekro [1k?]: overdone: the key to improving is palying opponents you can't handle ;)
chiron74 [13k?]: massive install and buggy
thekro [1k?]: so maybe KGS is the place for you ;)
DaelM [7k]: could you guys stop handling each other?
overdone [4k]: Right, I'm taking the baord to the zoo
chiron74 [13k?]: LOL
chiron74 [13k?]: chimps give you a run for your money
chiron74 [13k?]: :-)
DaelM [7k]: anyway
DaelM [7k]: back to trolling
overdone [4k]: But I'm his buddy, I'm allowed to hancle
overdone [4k]: nandle
overdone [4k]: handle
DaelM [7k]: fandle
thekro [1k?]: overdone: you are pro-anarchism - do you propose a lawless society?
DaelM [7k]: that's not what it means
chiron74 [13k?]: nope only a self regulating plateau that chaos brings eventually
thekro [1k?]: i read a bit the other day, and i was wondering how you thinmk society should be structured (or if)
thekro [1k?]: if you're anti-government on principle
thekro [1k?]: i know that's not what it means
DaelM [7k]: it means *imposed* law by unaccountable authority is out
thekro [1k?]: i mean - how does he see things going forward after removing govt
DaelM [7k]: eat them
overdone [4k]: Strictly defined anarchy is a society without a state. Alternative definition include contrary to authority (greek translation, and socialism without the state (Kropotkin)
overdone [4k]: well cook them first
chiron74 [13k?]: with fava beans
thekro [1k?]: so this is why definition of a state is so important
DaelM [7k]: you can't juts remove - must transition
overdone [4k]: Exactly
thekro [1k?]: for the right definition of state, anyone and everyone can be an anarchist
overdone [4k]: A blog reader
DaelM [7k]: very inclusive, it is
DaelM [7k]: that's not a bug it's a feature
overdone [4k]: yes, that is how revolution happens. everyone is invited
thekro [1k?]: i am a blog reader, but i skip most of your anarchy posts
DaelM [7k]: lol
DaelM [7k]: that's why you have the wrong idea
thekro [1k?]: yeah
overdone [4k]: then you read about dead fish
DaelM [7k]: LOL
thekro [1k?]: sometimes
chiron74 [13k?]: hey Iliked the dead fish articles
thekro [1k?]: that's sometimes inspiring
DaelM [7k]: it's either anarchy or fish
thekro [1k?]: intersting to hear a go-player with anti-jap views
DaelM [7k]: nothing else on that blog
overdone [4k]: sick bastard, amusing yourself with xenocide
DaelM [7k]: pro-whale
chiron74 [13k?]: I'm sure douglas adams could make the connection between anarchy and fish
DaelM [7k]: not anti-jap
thekro [1k?]: i thought your last conspiracy theory on global warming was perhaps a little farfetched though
overdone [4k]: Well a lot of chinese in WWII has a few anti-jap views
thekro [1k?]: hehe
thekro [1k?]: so you do support a form of governing - it just has to be accountable in some way?
overdone [4k]: Russian, Icelandic, Swedish, Canadian US companies are investing heavily in the Arctic, according to the revolutionary New York Times
DaelM [7k]: anarchists can elect governments (if they all consent). they juts can't give away their responisibilities or accountabilities
thekro [1k?]: why can only the anarchists elecT?
thekro [1k?]: dale: are you also an anarchist?.
chiron74 [13k?]: they are the guys with the cookbook - people are scared of them
DaelM [7k]: assuming your anarchist country, steve. they'll be anarchists. or claim to hide behind fictitious legal entities
overdone [4k]: Put it this way, when you take go lessons for a master, you sumbit temporarily to his authority, but which you can withdraw from at you will
DaelM [7k]: third sentence related to something else
DaelM [7k]: yes, loosely. closer to a luddite
DaelM [7k]: but that's another over mis-represented category
overdone [4k]: You have a greater chance, if you live in the US, of being killed by a US police officer than a terrorist.
DaelM [7k]: that's authority at work
DaelM [7k]: bow, bitch
DaelM [7k]: :)
thekro [1k?]: be with you in a moment
overdone [4k]: So, I'm scared of the guys in blue, not the guys with dodgy chemistry instructions
thekro [1k?]: tristen: i agree america has got it wrong
DaelM [7k]: steve, have you read tolstoy?
overdone [4k]: The Kingdom of God is Within You
thekro [1k?]: no i haven't, but i'm considering adding him to my to-read list
DaelM [7k]: highly religious basis for passive resistance and for refusing allegiance to imposed authority
DaelM [7k]: tremendously influential
thekro [1k?]: yeah - i've heard about it
DaelM [7k]: gandhi, thoreau and many others
overdone [4k]: Inspired Gandhi, with whom he traded letters
DaelM [7k]: well worth looking into all of them
overdone [4k]: Available for download from project gutenberg
thekro [1k?]: the problem with this, as i see it, is not everyone will agree on any govt
DaelM [7k]: read thoreau on Civil Disobedience
DaelM [7k]: thyat's exactly right
thekro [1k?]: so you'll never get ANY govt
DaelM [7k]: steve, that's why they fail
overdone [4k]: So we must beat them into submission?
thekro [1k?]: hence never any law
thekro [1k?]: so ppl end up doing whatever they want
thekro [1k?]: which isn't a problem for some people
thekro [1k?]: but that's why i started with the question i did
DaelM [7k]: so you cheat when no-one's looking?
chiron74 [13k?]: I am not sure I would like to live in a society where people run amuck and impose on the rights of others
thekro [1k?]: no - "cheat" when everyone's looking
DaelM [7k]: in all facets?
thekro [1k?]: chiron: but who's going to make a system against imposing other's rights in an anarchist state?
overdone [4k]: No. Societies subscribe to various norms and conventions. Is the only reason you don't kill us all is because you'll go to jail?
chiron74 [13k?]: people can't be relied on to apeal to their own sense of conscience
DaelM [7k]: why not?
thekro [1k?]: nope tristen, but i fully believe there are people who are restrained by exactly that
thekro [1k?]: and you've got to cater for them as well
chiron74 [13k?]: there are to many social outliers who would infringe on what others believe and try to achieve - you are talking about returning to a kind of wild west
overdone [4k]: Who? Most of the ciminals I know seem to view jail as a education, not as a punsihment
DaelM [7k]: peopel can be educated to defer gratification, to discipline, to derive benefit from cooperation. all these things happen naturally in every small group
overdone [4k]: Look, historical presecendent. When the anarchists took over Barcelona in 1936, they made an entire city work. Everybody got bread, the phones worked, water worked, but with no government. Then the communists crushed them
thekro [1k?]: an atheist (for example) who is seriously pissed ooff by someone (slept with his wife, for example) may stay his hand by the threat of jail/death sentence
DaelM [7k]: thekro [1k?]: what's your thesis topic, tristen?

After which, kgs disappeared the rest. Go figure, but you get the drift.

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